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	<title>Comments on: The NFL Hall of Fame: Who Belongs In?</title>
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	<link>http://www.byron-harvey.com/2006/02/the-nfl-hall-of-fame-who-belongs-in/</link>
	<description>refusing to drink the kool-aid for anyone</description>
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		<title>By: Byron</title>
		<link>http://www.byron-harvey.com/2006/02/the-nfl-hall-of-fame-who-belongs-in/comment-page-1/#comment-3826</link>
		<dc:creator>Byron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Feb 2006 19:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.byron-harvey.com/2006/02/04/the-nfl-hall-of-fame-who-belongs-in/#comment-3826</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Greg, I don&#039;t get the Rayfield Wright pick either, truthfully.  Whether L.C. deserves in ahead of him, I don&#039;t know, but he&#039;d not have made my next five, truthfully.  

On balance, I think now that I&#039;d vote for Art Monk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Greg, I don&#8217;t get the Rayfield Wright pick either, truthfully.  Whether L.C. deserves in ahead of him, I don&#8217;t know, but he&#8217;d not have made my next five, truthfully.  </p>
<p>On balance, I think now that I&#8217;d vote for Art Monk.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.byron-harvey.com/2006/02/the-nfl-hall-of-fame-who-belongs-in/comment-page-1/#comment-3825</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Feb 2006 19:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.byron-harvey.com/2006/02/04/the-nfl-hall-of-fame-who-belongs-in/#comment-3825</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting that L.C. Greenwood did not get in, and Rayfield Wright, whom he ate up in Super Bowls X and XIII, did. Granted, Wright was a heck of player, but he failed miserably against Greenwood in both Super Bowls. There&#039;s been a lot of talk that Wright was denied earlier admission because of an anti-Cowboy bias, which is bunk, in my opinion.

As for Art Monk, he should be in. I think his exclusion lies in the fact that he wasn&#039;t spectacular, just steady. When the Redskins needed seven yards for a first down, he got eight. He never was known for aerial acrobatics or turning short passes into long runs ala Jerry Rice. Still, without him, the Redskin offense would have suffered, and probably would not have won three Super Bowls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting that L.C. Greenwood did not get in, and Rayfield Wright, whom he ate up in Super Bowls X and XIII, did. Granted, Wright was a heck of player, but he failed miserably against Greenwood in both Super Bowls. There&#8217;s been a lot of talk that Wright was denied earlier admission because of an anti-Cowboy bias, which is bunk, in my opinion.</p>
<p>As for Art Monk, he should be in. I think his exclusion lies in the fact that he wasn&#8217;t spectacular, just steady. When the Redskins needed seven yards for a first down, he got eight. He never was known for aerial acrobatics or turning short passes into long runs ala Jerry Rice. Still, without him, the Redskin offense would have suffered, and probably would not have won three Super Bowls.</p>
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		<title>By: Byron</title>
		<link>http://www.byron-harvey.com/2006/02/the-nfl-hall-of-fame-who-belongs-in/comment-page-1/#comment-3790</link>
		<dc:creator>Byron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.byron-harvey.com/2006/02/04/the-nfl-hall-of-fame-who-belongs-in/#comment-3790</guid>
		<description>Bill, you&#039;ve fallen for the &quot;all stats from all eras are equal&quot; myth.  Compare, for instance, the passing numbers of Terry Bradshaw with those of Dave Krieg---Krieg statistically comes out way ahead, but nobody thinks Krieg should be in and Bradshaw out.  The game changes---sometimes dramatically---and these things have to be factored in significantly.  Plus, pure statistics don&#039;t tell the whole tale.

The &quot;Swann rationale&quot; for Hall of Fame inclusion has to do with several things: playing on a &quot;run first, run second, throw as a last resort&quot; team, he nonetheless made a significant impact.  Two, he did play on 4 Super Bowl winning teams (don&#039;t remember if the Skins won any during Monk&#039;s tenure or not, though I&#039;d guess that they did win one or two).  Third, strange as it sounds, I think that Lynn Swann gets &quot;style points&quot;, much in the way Gale Sayers, say, would.  Fourth, and I understand that this is subjective, but Bill James, the baseball guru, would give this a lot of weight, there is the question of &quot;how was the player perceived during his time in the league.&quot;  I think that during his time, Lynn Swann had several years when he was considered to be either the best or one of the couple of best WR&#039;s in the game---compared, again, to the best in his own era.  Stats just don&#039;t tell nearly the whole story.

I think that a pretty decent argument can be made for Art Monk&#039;s inclusion in the Hall of Fame---but it has nothing to do with Lynn Swann.  Thus, I&#039;ll pass on the vomiting...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, you&#8217;ve fallen for the &#8220;all stats from all eras are equal&#8221; myth.  Compare, for instance, the passing numbers of Terry Bradshaw with those of Dave Krieg&#8212;Krieg statistically comes out way ahead, but nobody thinks Krieg should be in and Bradshaw out.  The game changes&#8212;sometimes dramatically&#8212;and these things have to be factored in significantly.  Plus, pure statistics don&#8217;t tell the whole tale.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Swann rationale&#8221; for Hall of Fame inclusion has to do with several things: playing on a &#8220;run first, run second, throw as a last resort&#8221; team, he nonetheless made a significant impact.  Two, he did play on 4 Super Bowl winning teams (don&#8217;t remember if the Skins won any during Monk&#8217;s tenure or not, though I&#8217;d guess that they did win one or two).  Third, strange as it sounds, I think that Lynn Swann gets &#8220;style points&#8221;, much in the way Gale Sayers, say, would.  Fourth, and I understand that this is subjective, but Bill James, the baseball guru, would give this a lot of weight, there is the question of &#8220;how was the player perceived during his time in the league.&#8221;  I think that during his time, Lynn Swann had several years when he was considered to be either the best or one of the couple of best WR&#8217;s in the game&#8212;compared, again, to the best in his own era.  Stats just don&#8217;t tell nearly the whole story.</p>
<p>I think that a pretty decent argument can be made for Art Monk&#8217;s inclusion in the Hall of Fame&#8212;but it has nothing to do with Lynn Swann.  Thus, I&#8217;ll pass on the vomiting&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: bILL</title>
		<link>http://www.byron-harvey.com/2006/02/the-nfl-hall-of-fame-who-belongs-in/comment-page-1/#comment-3789</link>
		<dc:creator>bILL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.byron-harvey.com/2006/02/04/the-nfl-hall-of-fame-who-belongs-in/#comment-3789</guid>
		<description>Art Monk has the 5th most catches in NFL history !!Lets do a comparison for you Steelers fans.....
Swann....336 catches..5462 yds...51 tds
Monk.....940 catches..12,721 yds..68 tds

Are you kidding me ??? Swann is in and Monk isn&#039;t ? In this era Swann is Randel-El. In 10 years he averaged 33 catches a season ??????
Let me go vomit now</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Art Monk has the 5th most catches in NFL history !!Lets do a comparison for you Steelers fans&#8230;..<br />
Swann&#8230;.336 catches..5462 yds&#8230;51 tds<br />
Monk&#8230;..940 catches..12,721 yds..68 tds</p>
<p>Are you kidding me ??? Swann is in and Monk isn&#8217;t ? In this era Swann is Randel-El. In 10 years he averaged 33 catches a season ??????<br />
Let me go vomit now</p>
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		<title>By: Byron</title>
		<link>http://www.byron-harvey.com/2006/02/the-nfl-hall-of-fame-who-belongs-in/comment-page-1/#comment-3738</link>
		<dc:creator>Byron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.byron-harvey.com/2006/02/04/the-nfl-hall-of-fame-who-belongs-in/#comment-3738</guid>
		<description>I thought about including Art, but my reluctance is based upon the fact that I don&#039;t think there was a very long period of time when you&#039;d have thought of Art as the top 1 or 2 active WR&#039;s in the game.  He was always a very good player, but in my mind, just a tad short of HOF caliber.  That said, I don&#039;t think he&#039;d be a terrible pick either.  

The ones selected yesterday who I didn&#039;t name were John Madden, Harry Carson, and Rayfield Wright.  Wright&#039;s selection shocked me.  Madden?  A pretty good coach, but if he hadn&#039;t been a broadcaster all these years, would his coaching credentials alone have gotten him in?  Not a chance.  Carson?  I don&#039;t know...he certainly was a great player on a fabulous defense, but he played alongside the greatest LB of all time in Lawrence Taylor; was he made the better because of that connection (same argument could be made against L.C. Greenwood---a reason I included neither on my list).  I just always (admittedly subjectively) thought of Derrick Thomas as a better player than Carson.  Gary Zimmerman might have been a stretch on my part; I relied on the ESPN summaries of Pro Bowls, All-Pro teams, etc; before reading that, I&#039;d have (subjectively) probably ranked Bob Kuechenberg ahead of him, and maybe another.  He just had a nice, quiety, great career---and it still seems to me that he deserves induction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought about including Art, but my reluctance is based upon the fact that I don&#8217;t think there was a very long period of time when you&#8217;d have thought of Art as the top 1 or 2 active WR&#8217;s in the game.  He was always a very good player, but in my mind, just a tad short of HOF caliber.  That said, I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;d be a terrible pick either.  </p>
<p>The ones selected yesterday who I didn&#8217;t name were John Madden, Harry Carson, and Rayfield Wright.  Wright&#8217;s selection shocked me.  Madden?  A pretty good coach, but if he hadn&#8217;t been a broadcaster all these years, would his coaching credentials alone have gotten him in?  Not a chance.  Carson?  I don&#8217;t know&#8230;he certainly was a great player on a fabulous defense, but he played alongside the greatest LB of all time in Lawrence Taylor; was he made the better because of that connection (same argument could be made against L.C. Greenwood&#8212;a reason I included neither on my list).  I just always (admittedly subjectively) thought of Derrick Thomas as a better player than Carson.  Gary Zimmerman might have been a stretch on my part; I relied on the ESPN summaries of Pro Bowls, All-Pro teams, etc; before reading that, I&#8217;d have (subjectively) probably ranked Bob Kuechenberg ahead of him, and maybe another.  He just had a nice, quiety, great career&#8212;and it still seems to me that he deserves induction.</p>
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