Comments on: Finding and Doing God’s Will http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/08/finding-and-doing-gods-will/ refusing to drink the kool-aid for anyone Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:00:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Byron http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/08/finding-and-doing-gods-will/comment-page-1/#comment-2701 Byron Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:28:47 +0000 http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/08/20/finding-and-doing-gods-will/#comment-2701 Sure...and it did to me, I suppose, until I considered carefully the Scriptural arguments made by Garry Friesen, and reiterated by many others since then. No one denies that God has a sovereign will; the fact, though, is that we each have to make decisions in real time(hence the name of his book: "Decision-Making and the Will of God"). We cannot know His sovereign will until it comes to pass; we do know His moral will by reading His Word and understanding it. The real question isn't between God's sovereignty and man's free will, but rather a question of, when I approach a given decision, do I pray that God reveal to me His individual (extra-Biblical) will for my life, or do I pray for His wisdom to apply His Word correctly, take into account all factors surrounding the decision, and then make a wise choice? According to the first way of doing it, I may worry that I've "missed God's individual will" (particularly if things seem to go badly---and for all of us, we've made decisions that have!). Is that sinful, to miss God's individual will? On the other hand, I may make unwise decisions, to be sure, but I'm not saddled with some "extra guilt" by having been so unspiritual as to miss God's individual will. I don't mean to be ugly about it at all, and maybe I'm overstating the case a little. I just don't think that a solid case can be made Scripturally that God has that individual will for my life. But as I said earlier...good people can certainly disagree on this point. Sure…and it did to me, I suppose, until I considered carefully the Scriptural arguments made by Garry Friesen, and reiterated by many others since then. No one denies that God has a sovereign will; the fact, though, is that we each have to make decisions in real time(hence the name of his book: “Decision-Making and the Will of God”). We cannot know His sovereign will until it comes to pass; we do know His moral will by reading His Word and understanding it.

The real question isn’t between God’s sovereignty and man’s free will, but rather a question of, when I approach a given decision, do I pray that God reveal to me His individual (extra-Biblical) will for my life, or do I pray for His wisdom to apply His Word correctly, take into account all factors surrounding the decision, and then make a wise choice? According to the first way of doing it, I may worry that I’ve “missed God’s individual will” (particularly if things seem to go badly—and for all of us, we’ve made decisions that have!). Is that sinful, to miss God’s individual will?

On the other hand, I may make unwise decisions, to be sure, but I’m not saddled with some “extra guilt” by having been so unspiritual as to miss God’s individual will. I don’t mean to be ugly about it at all, and maybe I’m overstating the case a little. I just don’t think that a solid case can be made Scripturally that God has that individual will for my life.

But as I said earlier…good people can certainly disagree on this point.

]]> By: Don http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/08/finding-and-doing-gods-will/comment-page-1/#comment-2638 Don Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:38:17 +0000 http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/08/20/finding-and-doing-gods-will/#comment-2638 “For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13). John MacArthur writes, “The Gr. word for “will” indicates that He is not focusing on mere desires or whimsical emotions but on the studied intent to fulfill a planned purpose.” To me this whole discussion really boils down to the age old debate over the sovereignty of God verses the free will of man, two very biblical concepts that appear to create a paradox. It seems to me that this is yet another attempt at explaining the inexplicable. For my part, I simply cannot believe in a God who is sovereign Lord over all creation, yet does not have a planned purpose for my existence. To me that is illogical and totally against what I read in scripture. Jeremiah 29:11 says, “For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.” That sounds like a sovereign plan to me. “For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13). John MacArthur writes, “The Gr. word for “will” indicates that He is not focusing on mere desires or whimsical emotions but on the studied intent to fulfill a planned purpose.” To me this whole discussion really boils down to the age old debate over the sovereignty of God verses the free will of man, two very biblical concepts that appear to create a paradox. It seems to me that this is yet another attempt at explaining the inexplicable. For my part, I simply cannot believe in a God who is sovereign Lord over all creation, yet does not have a planned purpose for my existence. To me that is illogical and totally against what I read in scripture. Jeremiah 29:11 says, “For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.” That sounds like a sovereign plan to me.

]]> By: Byron http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/08/finding-and-doing-gods-will/comment-page-1/#comment-2597 Byron Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:25:00 +0000 http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/08/20/finding-and-doing-gods-will/#comment-2597 I'm going to have to think about that one, Don, whether it's interpretation or application. Of course, good people can and do disagree (on both interpretation and application); I'd sure be the first to agree with that statement (then again, can good people disagree upon the fact that good people can and do disagree? Hmmm...) I don't mean to say that people are illogical---I am convinced that the approach, as I was presented it as a young person, places one in a logical bind at points from which there seems little way out. Nor do I consider the people "mystical"; I think that the approach can be. Maybe I'll follow up with a post laying out exactly why I make the point about logic that I do. I’m going to have to think about that one, Don, whether it’s interpretation or application. Of course, good people can and do disagree (on both interpretation and application); I’d sure be the first to agree with that statement (then again, can good people disagree upon the fact that good people can and do disagree? Hmmm…) I don’t mean to say that people are illogical—I am convinced that the approach, as I was presented it as a young person, places one in a logical bind at points from which there seems little way out. Nor do I consider the people “mystical”; I think that the approach can be.

Maybe I’ll follow up with a post laying out exactly why I make the point about logic that I do.

]]> By: Don http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/08/finding-and-doing-gods-will/comment-page-1/#comment-2596 Don Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:42:33 +0000 http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/08/20/finding-and-doing-gods-will/#comment-2596 Then to say that this is not “a solidly biblical approach which relies on good exegesis of the Bible” is inaccurate, since the biblical instances I have cited (and the hundreds more I haven’t) are true. The issue therefore is not in the proper interpretation of scripture, but rather in its proper application. And in that, good people can and do disagree, but that doesn’t make them mystical, off-base, or illogical as you suggest. I could perhaps offer one devastating case in point of MY own (i.e. my personal experience of the past two years) as evidence of God’s predetermined calling “for such a time as this” (Esther 4:14). Then to say that this is not “a solidly biblical approach which relies on good exegesis of the Bible” is inaccurate, since the biblical instances I have cited (and the hundreds more I haven’t) are true. The issue therefore is not in the proper interpretation of scripture, but rather in its proper application. And in that, good people can and do disagree, but that doesn’t make them mystical, off-base, or illogical as you suggest. I could perhaps offer one devastating case in point of MY own (i.e. my personal experience of the past two years) as evidence of God’s predetermined calling “for such a time as this” (Esther 4:14).

]]> By: Byron http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/08/finding-and-doing-gods-will/comment-page-1/#comment-2595 Byron Tue, 23 Aug 2005 17:39:45 +0000 http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/08/20/finding-and-doing-gods-will/#comment-2595 That would be the standard interpretation given in recent times. I would not agree with it, asking whether the instances you cite (which, of course, are <strong>true</strong>!) are meant to be <strong>normative</strong> for us today. Reading Friesen's book---and, apparently, there are many others that follow his line of reasoning---would make for a good project, because it leads me in a different direction than you take. Oh, and of course I agree with your first sentence. That would be the standard interpretation given in recent times. I would not agree with it, asking whether the instances you cite (which, of course, are true!) are meant to be normative for us today. Reading Friesen’s book—and, apparently, there are many others that follow his line of reasoning—would make for a good project, because it leads me in a different direction than you take.

Oh, and of course I agree with your first sentence.

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