Comments on: Spurgeon v. Osteen (Wanna Guess Who Wins?) http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/07/spurgeon-v-osteen-wanna-guess-who-wins/ refusing to drink the kool-aid for anyone Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:00:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Byron http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/07/spurgeon-v-osteen-wanna-guess-who-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-2225 Byron Sun, 31 Jul 2005 22:53:45 +0000 http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/07/22/spurgeon-v-osteen-wanna-guess-who-wins/#comment-2225 CWV, Don't worry about your reputation here...it isn't my intent to besmirch it in any way! :) At the same time, while I very much understand your concerns /frustrations with the church, and its shortcomings, I cannot go with your final conclusion, not at all. I think that when a person takes that stance, while there are SOME areas of Christian living that can thrive, there are others that shrivel. I believe that a relational dynamic is essential to faithful Christian living, more than accountability (which, admittedly, can be gained outside of "church"). I wonder how a person can effectively live out the "one anothers" outside the laboratory of committed relationships with believers (I'm sure you have some relationships---I'm not saying you can't EVER do any of that outside of a church setting). I wonder what some church is missing because the gifts you have to offer are not being offered! I wonder how you can have involvement in the ordinances (some folks call them "sacraments", but the old Baptist in me rebels against that!) outside of a local fellowship. I guess I wonder why there is an "either/or" at work here...you don't have to toss the Bible curriculum or the Truth-based materials in order to be involved in a local church. I don't see any warrant in the NT for a Christian who is not a vital part of a local church. Look, there is no question that there are plenty of churches that are NOT healthy ones to be involved in...sure. But if memory serves, you're a Pittsburgher, right? I can't believe that there aren't a few fellowships there that are worth finding and getting involved in---perhaps more for what you have to GIVE than for what you stand to GAIN. I mean, after all, it's not about us, right? :) I hear your frustration and raise you a disgust. But I can't see how you can possibly be as well-rounded, in both the giving and gaining aspects of Christianity, as you'd be if you found a local church where the Word is taken seriously. I'd challenge you to get back on the horse and ride, and expand the blessing that you and your sons can GIVE by channeling your Christian faith through a local church. After all, the church, with all its warts, is still the only entity that Jesus promised will prevail over hell's gates... By the way, direct email access can be had at byronharvey@gmail.com. Blessings, Byron CWV,

Don’t worry about your reputation here…it isn’t my intent to besmirch it in any way! :)

At the same time, while I very much understand your concerns /frustrations with the church, and its shortcomings, I cannot go with your final conclusion, not at all. I think that when a person takes that stance, while there are SOME areas of Christian living that can thrive, there are others that shrivel. I believe that a relational dynamic is essential to faithful Christian living, more than accountability (which, admittedly, can be gained outside of “church”).

I wonder how a person can effectively live out the “one anothers” outside the laboratory of committed relationships with believers (I’m sure you have some relationships—I’m not saying you can’t EVER do any of that outside of a church setting). I wonder what some church is missing because the gifts you have to offer are not being offered! I wonder how you can have involvement in the ordinances (some folks call them “sacraments”, but the old Baptist in me rebels against that!) outside of a local fellowship. I guess I wonder why there is an “either/or” at work here…you don’t have to toss the Bible curriculum or the Truth-based materials in order to be involved in a local church. I don’t see any warrant in the NT for a Christian who is not a vital part of a local church.

Look, there is no question that there are plenty of churches that are NOT healthy ones to be involved in…sure. But if memory serves, you’re a Pittsburgher, right? I can’t believe that there aren’t a few fellowships there that are worth finding and getting involved in—perhaps more for what you have to GIVE than for what you stand to GAIN. I mean, after all, it’s not about us, right? :)

I hear your frustration and raise you a disgust. But I can’t see how you can possibly be as well-rounded, in both the giving and gaining aspects of Christianity, as you’d be if you found a local church where the Word is taken seriously. I’d challenge you to get back on the horse and ride, and expand the blessing that you and your sons can GIVE by channeling your Christian faith through a local church. After all, the church, with all its warts, is still the only entity that Jesus promised will prevail over hell’s gates…

By the way, direct email access can be had at byronharvey@gmail.com.

Blessings,

Byron

]]> By: cwv warrior http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/07/spurgeon-v-osteen-wanna-guess-who-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-2222 cwv warrior Sun, 31 Jul 2005 19:25:09 +0000 http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/07/22/spurgeon-v-osteen-wanna-guess-who-wins/#comment-2222 Well, I suppose I will try to recover my reputation... Not that it matters much. The church is so split already, I'll never please everyone! I have plenty of wholesome accountability with the people around me. There are homeschoolers, prayer warriors, and my two teenage sons! Seriously, when we were in church, it seemed there was more of a pull off track than a push on. I think you know what i'm talkin. Now that we have Bible curriculum, and access to Truth based materials, I've never been a more close follower of my Lord. I hate to think where the organized church would have left us if God hadn't shown us His Truth from other sources. My son's confirmation class was the last straw. He could have taught the darn thing. There is no accountability IN THE CHURCH! That said, thank you for the honest concern. Since I didn't find an email address, this is the short version. Too many pastors have let me down, even when I confronted them. Nicely, I might add. Well, I suppose I will try to recover my reputation… Not that it matters much. The church is so split already, I’ll never please everyone!
I have plenty of wholesome accountability with the people around me. There are homeschoolers, prayer warriors, and my two teenage sons! Seriously, when we were in church, it seemed there was more of a pull off track than a push on. I think you know what i’m talkin.
Now that we have Bible curriculum, and access to Truth based materials, I’ve never been a more close follower of my Lord. I hate to think where the organized church would have left us if God hadn’t shown us His Truth from other sources. My son’s confirmation class was the last straw. He could have taught the darn thing. There is no accountability IN THE CHURCH!
That said, thank you for the honest concern. Since I didn’t find an email address, this is the short version. Too many pastors have let me down, even when I confronted them. Nicely, I might add.

]]> By: Billy http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/07/spurgeon-v-osteen-wanna-guess-who-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-2153 Billy Fri, 29 Jul 2005 01:05:24 +0000 http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/07/22/spurgeon-v-osteen-wanna-guess-who-wins/#comment-2153 Building up self would be the best way to define his "preaching." Mark - cheap shots?! Maybe I missed it but, it sounds to me from what I read and heard from the comments (On Spencer's article); the people who agree with Olsteen look to much on his outward appearance and don't really listen to what he is saying and see if it lines up with God's Word [which it obviously doesn't]. Building up self would be the best way to define his “preaching.”

Mark – cheap shots?! Maybe I missed it but, it sounds to me from what I read and heard from the comments (On Spencer’s article); the people who agree with Olsteen look to much on his outward appearance and don’t really listen to what he is saying and see if it lines up with God’s Word [which it obviously doesn't].

]]> By: Byron http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/07/spurgeon-v-osteen-wanna-guess-who-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-2074 Byron Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:56:02 +0000 http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/07/22/spurgeon-v-osteen-wanna-guess-who-wins/#comment-2074 Yeah, you're right, Mark; failing to stick to the issues (and there are several), and instead engaging in cheap-shotting, is sub-Christian. I HOPE that the issue is God showing Joel where he needs to grow; honestly, though, he ought not be preaching at all right now, not until/unless he gets a LOT of things straightened out, primarily his reluctance to preach the gospel! Yeah, you’re right, Mark; failing to stick to the issues (and there are several), and instead engaging in cheap-shotting, is sub-Christian. I HOPE that the issue is God showing Joel where he needs to grow; honestly, though, he ought not be preaching at all right now, not until/unless he gets a LOT of things straightened out, primarily his reluctance to preach the gospel!

]]> By: Mark Merritt http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/07/spurgeon-v-osteen-wanna-guess-who-wins/comment-page-1/#comment-2062 Mark Merritt Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:33:40 +0000 http://www.byron-harvey.com/2005/07/22/spurgeon-v-osteen-wanna-guess-who-wins/#comment-2062 I've been reading many criticisms of Osteen on various sites and I think the ones that criticize his preaching are well justified. He does very little (if any) true preaching of the Gospel. What a shame. But you know what else is a shame? People who are taking this opportunity to criticize other things like his mullet or his happy face. I think when that happens, it shows a little insight into the nature of judgmentalism. Mostly the critics have been right though. May God use this opportunity to show Joel where he needs to grow in order to be the 'preacher' that God truly desires him to be! Let's continue to stick with the critiques that are meaningful. - Mark M I’ve been reading many criticisms of Osteen on various sites and I think the ones that criticize his preaching are well justified. He does very little (if any) true preaching of the Gospel. What a shame. But you know what else is a shame? People who are taking this opportunity to criticize other things like his mullet or his happy face. I think when that happens, it shows a little insight into the nature of judgmentalism. Mostly the critics have been right though. May God use this opportunity to show Joel where he needs to grow in order to be the ‘preacher’ that God truly desires him to be! Let’s continue to stick with the critiques that are meaningful.

- Mark M

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